The Godhead was a different blessing from Godhood. I truly appreciate your time and great efforts in doctrinal essays and your wonderful books. Like another point of view on the same thing. idea as crazy or ridiculous. It looks to me like they just misunderstood what Joseph was teaching. Those Brothers and Sisters bore witness to me additionally of the Truth of multiple Probationary Earths, my witnesses are in the hundreds and I cannot deny them, Harold, thank you for sharing your special experience and witness. 33:9. this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare, Alma 12:24. a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God, Alma 42:4. your days of probation are past, Hel. Praise be to God and the Lamb!! I will ponder about it and ask Heavenly Father. 2.3M+ acres, 1 in every ~550 acres of private land. And no man knoweth of his ways save it be revealed unto him; wherefore, brethren, despise not the revelations of God. Jacob 4:8. In his writings in Sein und Zeit (I only know the German title) he describes that our understanding of things as an increase of awareness the process is in his view not linear but circularhe calls that process the hermeneutic circle of understandingor as Gadamer would call it a hermeneutic spiral. 2:21. wasteth the days of his probation, 2 Ne. It is as though our Asian brothers and sisters who comprise I began to see and feel clearly that my agency was being squashed and that their was almost a secret society within the church of people who felt similar but were too afraid to speak up. Kabbalism, especially the sort in 12th century Spain that produced the Zohar and so forth is a thoroughgoing Platonic conception of Judaism. In the 1840s their polygamous relationship to the Mormon prophet was as secret as his conversion to reincarnation. That is there is a certain form that Elijah participates in as part of being a person. By My heart is full . By . It should be made clear that the denomination Brigham Young founded in 1851, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has rejected these teachings. I have learned for And thank you Greg. Couldnt we just come again and again until we got it right? This implication is emphasized by JS' teachings on identifying angels vs. evil spirits (found in D&C), which he taught on multiple occasions, maybe 5 or 6 times, before and after the Nauvoo endowment had been administered. Lori, and her husband Chad, allegedly murdered Lori's children "JJ" Vallow, 7, Tylee . This all adds up to only one conclusion in my mind, there is a way and a plan, and the fact that so many do not achieve their potential in a short life span, means there must be another time and place to prove themselves and the Doctrine of Multiple Probations is the only doctrine I see that provides a fair, and merciful means by which mankind may improve themselves line up line, precept upon precept enough to eventually become perfected in their own generations and exalted in all levels of Heaven. We all have to die to go further. It makes wonderful sense when you consider how merciful and how loving our Savior Jesus Christ is especially when we are gifted with agency both pre and post mortality. LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations Third Hour Forum Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting. Mahalo for your light, your love for truth, and your love for us all! I view these gifts largely to be the result of mortal Even that though is pretty vague and could easily be taken in terms ofAlma 42:25. consider to be an incomplete version of the Plan of Salvation by my faith. I was drawn to him because of these gifts that he freely shared with me. Ive learned to not voice my experiences at church as well. May the Lord bless you! These ware resurrected Bodies, Violated the Celestial laws. various sects of Christianity as a true and practical doctrine, as evidenced by But allow me to tell you you may expect an eternity of cats, that have not yet escaped from the bag " BRIGHAM YOUNG, 1853. I converted to the church in my early twenties when i received a witness of the book of mormon and of Joseph Smith. Elena, I hope you feel the sincerity of my heart when I say, I hear you! Thank you!! As the recent However this is no profound than all cows participating in the form of cowness for Platonists. I now know for myself it is true doctrine. Now of course the argument of various forms of platonism in early Mormonism typically comes with it the claim that Joseph ismisreading platonism. I have always know it to be true, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and have never doubted it, no, not even for a second. Laub wrote, "For we are to go from glory to glory and as one is raised to a higher, so the next under him may take his degree and so to take the exaltation through the regular channel. What, when, and to whom those truths could come was left open-ended. 9:27. continue in the path until the end of the day of probation, 2 Ne. Any comments would be helpful. If you have already answered this question in a post or book, could you direct me to it. on several counts: For example, our book on multiple probations was an attempt to show that there is substantial support for multiple probations in the scriptures and in the words of authorities. It j u s t makes sense. I couldn't find it. The seriousness, the risk, and the glories of mortal life are undercut the moment one supposes he will have a million or more subsequent probations of the same sort. And what is our test score? Thanks for sharing! Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. The Savior is crucial to the plan, and only He is the way back no matter how many probations we have had. In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. While belief in this doctrine is unpopular in the Christian world at this time, I would like to share some of the ways it has been a blessing to me. For some of us, the knowledge of who we have been in I don't want to say any blessing or whatever is wrong but these were the early days of the Restoration and I think some of these people wanted to take any new concept they heard and run with it, e.g., stuff like blessing people that they will get translated to Kolob and whatnot. [a] The Triumph and Glory of the Lamb: Doctrine and Covenants 76 in Its Historical Context When I first heard of this I had some doubts, but as I read your words they ring true to my soul and it feels right. But I can understand a model where the soul continues to return to learn new things and progress. My niece is a Medium, and she mentioned something like this happening when we go to the other side. The concept of "Multiple Mortal Probation" would be similar to the teaching of reincarnation, both of which are false doctrines. Even Brigham Young said, My traditions were such, he confessed, that when the Vision came first to me, it was directly contrary and opposed to my former education. Thank you Kim. A woman who has been identified before as Lori Daybell's "best friend" has written a lengthy 7-page letter describing the various forms of "deception" emanating from alleged "doomsday cult" leader Chad Daybell.. East Idaho News reporting on the Melanie Gibb's letter (read in full here) comes in the aftermath of 51-year-old Chad Daybell's arrest on two felony counts for . could not look upon God, except hisgloryshould come upon me, and I However, several people online were using LDS quotes in support of a false doctrine of reincarnation they call "multiple moral probations". I love the doctrine of multiple probations. The Widow's Mite presents, an overview of Church land ownership in the USA. There is a real fear of being labeled an apostate for believing these messages and for even having had my own experiences. Even Christ talked about this principle to Simon and he also showed with his own example that he was acting under the law of baptism. If they are returned then effectively this reading is denying they are resurrected at all. 2. It explains how many in the premortal council of heaven had become noble and great (Abraham 3:22). Especially that your own witness didnt come from a human. I dont want to repeat 5th grade again. .Sometimes we also borrow the picture of the gate when we speak about the baptism. I love our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and I know He loves me. This is not a final conclusion by any means, but this strikes me as Joseph Smith trying to get to his next level of understanding and thinking some of his own thoughts on certain things short of getting a definitive revelation on the subject. The more I know the more I am constrained to announce The Glory of God and my own unworthiness before He Who Is Mighty To Save. Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. This implications started with JS' apparent teaching that God the Father was a Christ during his mortal probation. Thank you again for your testimony and to stand boldly for truth. I know who you and I were in the past and I cannot wait to meet you in person. For many We also know that there is an opposite to all things. God bless you for speaking truth. Thank you for bringing it out of obscurity. Whatever the case, I am certain that the most important factor about what relationships will look like in the eternities is agency. I no longer depended on him to get us there. More significantly, JS' King Follett Sermon suggests that, after the resurrection, each heir to Godhood will eventually serve as a Christ in a mortal probation. . As is common knowledge, the trio of beings who participate in the creation in the temple are Michael, Jehovah, and Elohim, and these possibly represent JS' conception of the Godhead. "And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Which is not what actually happens. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. When I first heard this doctrine I felt a rush come over me that is hard to understand and explain. I feel like this life is equivalent to a year in school and I am in 5th grade. The doctrine of multiple probations again increases my understanding of eternal lives. I love that you point our how the Ninth Article of Faith apples to all who earnestly and humbly seek the truth, and not for just a select few. mistake in my mind as to who the authors of the two variations are. I am so grateful that we have the privilege now of hearing about this and learning more about the mysteries of God. and so I can testify that the doctrine of multiple probations is true doctrine. This concept was taught by early LDS Church leaders. Thank you for your wonderful expositions on such a beautiful and hidden part of the plan. Erika, these are great questions. The movement has a few thousand adherents, many of them members or former members of the LDS . I can see that in the spiritual world it goes way beyond any earthly graduate school I can imagine. future. Required fields are marked *. about the doctrine, but it is important to me. I believe that I am a child of a God, a child of a loving Heavenly Father and Mother with a divine heritage. I continue to rejoice and find joy in seeking and discovering truth. He taught Church history and doctrine for many years at Brigham Young University.He was also the director of the Latter-day Saint historical collection in the Harold B. Lee Library.. The treasures and hidden treasures of knowledge are real. The only doctrine that Julie specifically mentions her stake president having a problem with is "multiple probations," also called multiple mortal probations. You had to have been proven, and earned this Title. When I first heard you and Julie talk about multiple probations on a podcast I was surprised but thought: Thanks for commenting. Known holdings place as #2 top landowner, very close to #1. Sincere thanks and God Bless Always! I remember when my sister Julie first introduced multiple probations to me, the concept seemed like it could be true. I do not believe I am alone in these sentiments. The answers are there if you seek them from the Lord and in His timing. I still struggle to understand my place in the eternitys. When I wrote the first article in this series regarding Multiple Mortal Probations, I honestly expected it to be the least . the doctrine that has circulated these recent events. Love you all! Without these contrasting experiences and emotions, I am he. At the north end of the FLDS community is an abandoned man-made cave, which is a bunker-like network of tunnels drilled 100-yards deep . The thought of using this LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations. I have not ever been constrained by The Spirit to speak in ways that invite others to look to me for the answers that must only come from Father. I did not need to ask our Lord and Savior if what I heard was true, just as Joseph Smith seen God the Father and Jesus Christ and Could not deniy it, I stand as a witness of the same thruths declared. However, the teaching was probably only explicitly taught to a select few. These ideas make sense and just feel right to me. clarity to the many dreams, visions, memories, and Deja vu experiences that May God continue to inspire you and bless you and your family, you are certainly blessings us! peacefully and sweetly. As it is now, one could easily conclude God respects persons, because some of us clearly get benefits others never had. Benjamin Seeker 2:307 or TPJS, pp. Because we are told this is the time for men to prepare to meet God, Yea behold , I find I am perplexed it seems we are being told in more than this scripture, that THIS TIME is the time from which we attain our eternal status, NOT THROUGH OUR OWN TOTAL EFFORTS, but from our leaning on the atonement of Christ. What follows is a thesis on the controversial doctrine from the 19th century referred to as multiple mortal probations, which fell out of favor along with Adam-God. So. Another example comes as I try to understand the meaning of eternal lives. He recorded, "But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies for the Saviour Says the work that my father did do i also & those are the works he took himself a body & then laid down his life that he might take it up again." According to orthodox Latter-day Saint teachings, this life is a test or probation to see if people will live by God's commandments. Please know that I am sincere in my question and am not trying to be argumentative or contrary. Also, I didn't mention it in the OP, but I believe Michael Quinn documents an influential relationship between JS and Alexander Neibaur, who was a convert from Jewish Cabala and who related reincarnation-like Cabala sourced ideas in a couple of Times and Seasons articles during the Nauvoo era. Who are the Sons of Perdition? Lori Vallow Daybell's older sister became the latest family member to testify against her sibling at the "doomsday cult" mom's ongoing murder trial in the 2019 slayings of her two children. JS taught many times that Michael stood next to Christ in authority, and he also taught that Elohim was the head of the Gods (i.e. Michael Quinn documented it as follows: By the time of his death in 1844, Joseph Smith had also reversed his prior rejection of the Cabala's doctrine of "transmigration of the souls." To me it not only set me free trying to tug and pull and push my husband in the gospel but it set him free as well. Let the comments, insights, and debate ensue! But my mother died recently and the idea of her in another probation feels a bit heartbreaking. through contrasts. In front of my eyes. I share your enthusiasm for truth regardless of its source. If mortal probations, then individuals get better opportunity. assigned to a kingdom of glory, whether Telestial, Terrestrial, or Celestial, Peace, enlightenment, and hope are wonderful gifts. Although it had to be put on a shelf for a year or so when I first heard about it, the Fringe Doctrine of Multiple Mortal Probations has answered many of my questions about Christ, our Father and Mother, the Noble and Great Ones, the 144,000, the Olympians, Prophets of Old and of Latter Days, and the hope that my friends and family members still have if they choose not to forgive themselves and progress in THIS life! In my opinion Alma 5 and Alma 12, in their entirety, are both worthy of consideration along side many other scriptures that follow a pattern which is familiar to me. I find the idea of multiple probations very interesting and am open to it in a well, why not sort of way. . I dont feel that explanation is accurate or complete. perhaps the first example of this idea. Perhaps Im misunderstanding. Dorthea, with what youve written, Im embarrassed to say I hadnt considered your insights on baptism in the context as a symbol for MP, but I feel you are wise to have picked up on it. http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/shirley-maclaine-tells-film-set-stories-line-article-1.2545803. Maybe I will need to review a few things I learned from 5th grade but I feel like it would be a waste of time to start 5th grade over again. News. The strongest argument for an A/G like doctrine in Nauvoo to my eyes is William Law's expose of the potential of God to fall. Tonya, I didnt know this about your family. The Father). Hearing experiences like yours along with Erics and Julies really helps me. It felt right to me but the opposition was so strong and vociferous I proceeded with caution. Some say this scripture suggeststhat a person might be able to leave the telestial glory experience another life on earth and then return to the telestial glory. See 1 Corinthians 15:40-44. There are stages before and stages after, and one may indeed move in the cyclic spiral, but not in repetition and not in a circle. path, and between my Father in Heaven and me. And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place [the telestial kingdom where they now live], to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.". This clarification is very helpful. Rowe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after . Please consider subscribing in order to receive these updates. May I share my own experience that has allowed me to know and discern truth of such doctrine as MMP. Your peaceful witness strengthens my own. I hold the knowledge sacred, personal to my own covenant The purpose was not to claim that it is the doctrine of the Church, as we have no authority in that regard. Daybell seems to have emphasized the idea of a Millennial Church that was being formed under his direction: The LDS church is still God's church, but the Church of the Firstborn, this. How can something start from nothing? Thank you, I have been pondoring over weather I should share this, by no means am I a visionary like Julie and many others but on December 7th 2018 my Dad passed away at 100 yrs and 4months, my fathers passing opened up a portal to a degree that allowed me to communicate in a small way with those in the Spirit Word, what transpired startled me at first but the experience lasted for weeks. I must continually ask myself the question, Who am I to believe that Gods work is dependent on my understanding, teaching and attempting to enlighten the unenlightened? I must also daily keep in mind my own nothingness and utter reliance on The Savior of The World (2 Nephi 4). I am a witness that these promises are true. Thank you for this essay, you have a way of expressing your thoughts and knowledge so eloquently and with so much clarity. I like cats better. It has been referred to many times in this essay and the comments as doctrine. DRAFT. Thanks for sharing your witness. Callings Sharing the Gospel Volunteer and Serve Temples Family History. Should there be an official declaration against every imaginable falsehood? For me, if I get caught in thinking that something I say or do will be that which saves or enlightens you, I am in dangerous territory. It is uplifting to the soul and brings me closer to Christ. In the past I would just move on and hope to receive later knowledge on the meaning. I do not hold a The standard version of the sermon can be easily interpreted in this fashion. One can know truth from error. ??? But what is meant spiritually can be read in a physical way too. . I thank you! February 28, 2017 in General Discussions. [i] Most Christians believe in the binary afterlife of heaven or hell. That just feels like a natural and eternal, and even logical principle. Ever since first hearing the doctrine of Multiple Mortal Probations, I have felt peace in this knowledge. That is they aren't to be taken mystically or platonically but in a materialist/historicist kind of 'literalism.' There is just too much to experience for once to be enough. I too grew up knowing that Reincarnation was/ is a false doctrine, but also grew up in a culture that taught that those who made mistakes and took their guilt from said mistakes to their grave without repentance or forgiveness were eternally assigned to a lower Kingdom of Glory, only to be visited by friends and family members in higher kingdoms. Her experience helps to counter some of the false beliefs we have about suicide. I am a very simple man, not elequent in speech, but my witness of the Truth if it is very strong and it is deep and brings much peace to my heart. Let's review multiple scriptures that allow us to see things as they really are: 1) The Plan of Happiness.
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