3. This page was last edited on 7 April 2023, at 02:58. In 1949, The Turkish Forest Service began issuing three-shot Berthier carbines, full-length rifles were altered to utilize a Mannlicher-style stock. Please enable cookies in your web browser settings. This is due in no small part to the magazine system, which was redesigned more similar to a Mannlicher-type design, where it was loaded with 3-round (later 5-round) clips, chargers, or packets. Because Alderfer Auction is FFL approved, all shipping, packing and insurance are handled by Alderfer Auction. 11x59Rmm French. Vintage 8 Lebel is prone to hang-fire as well. Buyer's Premium. Live Bidding THE BOLT HEAD DOES MATCH THE RECEIVER. Alderfer Auction is not responsible for any damage or loss that occurs via a third party shipper. By 1900, the Lebel was already obsolete in comparison to other newer magazine-fed rifles introduced by Mauser, Lee, and Mannlicher. i love this forum, except for the addiction part. just thought this rifle was worth sharing. Nice!!!! SOLD Rifle Caliber: 8mm Lebel Manufacturer: St. Etienne Model: M16 Mle Serial Number: 43763 $10 until $199 is reached Costs are as follows: The used value of a LEBEL rifle has fallen $0.00 dollars over the past 12 months to a price of . Alderfer Auction offers onsite shipping subject to limitations. If we state 'bears signature' in our opinion, the signature might be that of the artist, but we make no guarantee that the work is by the named artist. Researching more than one vehicle? Each threatened and endangered species will be assessed on a case-by-case basis as mandated by State and Federal laws. Some came from France, others were born to French parents in the colonies. We believe the 2nd Amendment is best defended through grass-roots organization, education, and advocacy centered around individual gun owners. - Payment After the fall of France in 1940, the Berthier could be found in service with both Vichy & Free French units. The MAC-designed Lebel rifle entered production in 1886. Dan@AlderferAuction.com Berthier Model 1916 (original & converted) 5-shot rifles & carbines saw action in both France & Norway. It has a St. Etienne prefix, doesn't seem to be remarked, doesn't seem to be an upgraded old model. As the high Command appreciated the performance of the Mle 1890 Berthier carbine, a second version was specifically produced for artillery service, the " Mousqueton Mle 1892" which could mount a short blade bayonet and thus had a re-designed forend stock. Alderfer Online Onsite Auctions Fees must be paid in advance by credit card. Item #: 929859794 Location: FL Trades Accepted: No If it appears to stick, insert a finger into the opening at the bottom of the magazine and gently push up on the bottom of the follower, pushing the clip release button at the same time. . St. Etienne Mle M16 rifle. (Photo: Francis Borek). Purchasers may inspect the merchandise and are urged to do so. 13. The rear sight features a very wide square notch while the front sight is a big, fat square post. We understand for some items there may be exceptions, however it is at the discretion of the shipping department to determine which items can be shipped and which items will require third-party shipping. There are no other visible numbers on the rifle. It's possible to pay with credit card or Western Union, but PayPal isn't an option. Furthermore, a hinged metal plate covering the bottom opening of the magazine well was added. 2. 215.393.3000 In kind, the Mle. Reply Quote. The receiver is marked St. Etinne MLE1892, indicating manufacture at the Government Arsenal at Saint-tienne. service@guns.com The auctioneers decision will be binding and final. All phone bids are required to open at $250 or half of the published estimate (whichever is greater and no less than $250). New Jersey: We do not ship, sell, or offer for sale any magazines over 10 rounds to anyone in New Jersey or anyone using a billing address in the state of New Jersey. Unable to retrieve AutoCheck Summary Report, please try back later. After World War I, the French military sought to replace the 8mm Lebel cartridge, which was poorly suited to large-capacity rifle magazines and to automatic or semi-automatic weapons. Discussion forums for GunBroker.com users. Massachusetts: We do not ship, sell, or offer for sale any magazines over 10 rounds to anyone in Massachusetts or anyone using a billing address in the state of Massachusetts. this is not like some of the other scrapes or small cuts on the stock, its old. OPTSYS, a Nexter subsidiary specializing in optical equipment and protected vision for armored vehicles, is currently located in Saint-tienne. To avoid this possibility, the absentee bidder may authorize Alderfer Auction to increase their bid by one increment by placing a (+) sign beside the bid price. Please allow 2 weeks for shipping from receipt of payment. The left side of the barrel shank, bottom metal, bolt handle, and left side of the butt are all marked with the serial number. - Alderfer Auction will not be held responsible for error or failure to execute the bid. The most successful and long-lived variant of the Berthier system was the short and handy carbine version of the five-shot Mle 1916 Berthier rifle, designated "'Mousqueton Berthier Mle 1892/M16". At its discretion, Alderfer Auction may also accept bids from approved internet bidders. 1874 Gras Rifle Mfg in 1877 at St. Etienne Arsenal The Fusil Modle 1874 or Gras was the French Army 's primary service rifle from 1874 to 1886. Rifle is a mixmaster, seems to be in pretty good condition, receiver is not marked N. This is my first French rifle, know virtually nothing about them. Antique (Pre-1899) Rifles - Flintlock Misc, Antique (Pre-1899) Rifles - Matchlock/Wheellock Misc, Century Arms International (CAI) - Rifles, Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Rifles (perc), Winchester Rifles - Modern Bolt/Auto/Single, Winchester Rifles - Pre-1899 Bolt/Single Shot, Century Arms International (CAI) - Pistols, Colt Automatic Pistols (.25, .32, & .380 cal), Colt Single Action Revolvers - Modern (22 Cal. Want to buy one? This one is. Alderfer Auction conducts auctions at various different onsite locations through online only timed auctions. Budget Lever-Action Shotgun: Reviewing GForces LVR410. Many customers have had positive experiences ordering from them, and their customer service has been praised for keeping buyers updated on order status. i like to think its a kill mark, but it could merely just be identification mark for someones rifle. - Vehicle, Helpers, Packing Supplies The Fusil Gras Modle 1874 M80 was a French service rifle of the 19th century. WAF means With All Faults 1. Est: $600 USD - $700 USD Sold: Log in to view. Following the auction the successful bidders are notified and payment arrangements are made; applicable buyers premium applies. By 1838, during the July Monarchy, annual production was well over 30,000 firearms. https://harleysville-pa-2302.theupsstorelocal.com 30 3/4" bbl. Alderfer Auction reserves the right not to execute any absentee bid at its discretion and to have no liability for any inadvertent failure to execute any such bids. This rifle was purchased for $189, either because the owner of the store didnt care about French rifles or felt the rifle was probably refinished. (Photo: Francis Borek). The Berthier Mle 1892 M16 carbine, with a 5-round charger, had a deserved reputation of solidity and reliability that kept it in service until the early 1960s. The five-round magazine was also a rarity in the trenches, and the three-round variant was far more common. 7. Shipping Department 5. IT IS SERIAL #82233. Price ranges are based on the most accurate values of used items sold online and millions of transactions in hundreds of independent stores. All goods are exposed for Public Exhibition and for Internet buyer's, condition is described in the listings. By the time of World War I, the standard issue French service rifle was the Mle. These Berthier carbines were progressively allocated to all cavalry, artillery and gendarmerie troops during the 1890s. Fatal shooting near bar involved rival biker gangs, Port St. Luce police say, Winchester Model 70 Super Grade AAA French Walnut, In need of ar-15 M16 lower stripped receiver. SLR: Signed Lower Right Beretta released its PX4 Storm line in the 1990s without much fanfare, but it since has developed something of a cult-like following. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's Contrary to the Mle 1916 Berthier five-shot infantry rifle whose manufacture had barely started during the late summer of 1918, the mass production ( over 800.000 "mousquetons" ) of the Berthier Mle 1916 five-shot carbines had begun much earlier, in May 1917, at the Manufacture d'Armes de Chatellerault (MAC). St. Etienne - Berthier M16 Rifle in 8x50 Lebel PhoenixPhart 42.5K subscribers 326 13K views 2 years ago #M16 #Berthier Shooting my new (old) #Berthier #M16 rifle made in 1917. The Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-tienne, often abbreviated to MAS ("Saint-tienne Weapons Factory" in English) was a French state-owned weapons manufacturer in the town of Saint-tienne, Loire. All announcements made on auction day shall take precedence over previously distributed information, print or electronic media. The UPS Store The useless notch on the front sight and the stacking hook. Gardening is a great way to spend time outdoors and get in touch with nature. The Modele 1916 Short Rifle carbines became the "Modele 1916/27" after the changes to the new standard. Due to the sensitive and mechanical nature of clocks and watches, we do not guarantee them to be in running or working condition. wish i had a bayonet for this one. These rifles hold special significance to African-American historians. 07-15. 5. Extreme care must be exercised when handling a loaded Berthier rifle or carbine. A relatively unknown brand, with a whole new platform, at an incredibly enticing price point thats GForce Arms with the LVR410. Saint-tienne was well-known as a center of sword and knife manufacturing beginning in the Middle Ages. THE STACKING ROD IS SLIGHTLY BENT. Signature- The signature, inscriptions and dates are transcribed in print as they appear and are located as follows: Measurements are given height before width. We greatly appreciate your help. With its tube-fed magazine, the Lebel was long, ungainly and distinctly muzzle-heavy when loaded, difficult to manufacture, was overly complex in construction. This rifle has 'St Etienne Mle M.16' on the left side meaning it was Manufacture d'Armes de Saint Etienne (MAS) manufactured, comes intact with original (numbered to the rifle) one piece full length wooden . This is all-original but not all-matching World War 1 French Model 1907/15 Berthier rifle in 8mm Lebel. The clip should spring up and out of the rifle. Attributed to- In our best judgment, the work may be by the artist. Absentee Bidding Item estimates provided in print or electronic media are not a representation or a prediction of the hammer price that will be realized at auction, which may be substantially different from our original estimates. Authorship Alderfer Auction sometimes uses the services of a third party auction platform for online bidding. Please call 24 hours in advance to schedule a pick-up time. Despite this, the clips are interchangeable between three- and five-round magazines. Caliber: 8mm Lebel. If you have any questions regarding this item, you should contact the Seller before bidding. You can contact the seller by clicking on the seller's nickname. Warranty & Condition Reports Although very well finished, the Remington order was rejected by French Government acceptance inspectors, who alleged that the rifles did not meet French barrel rifling and chamber dimensional standards. $10 for each additional long gun (Photo: Francis Borek). Let's review what makes this soft-shooting carry gun so special. The M.16 was intended to be the standard production Berthier model. Call (866) 582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. She is a little awkward to handle, ammunition is tough to find and the en bloc clips are expensive. Alderfer Auction is not responsible for typos in print and electronic media. In the end, the production of converted Mle 1907/15-M34 Berthier rifles was limited to approximately 80,000 units. but it would seem like such a shame to use it. Harleysville, PA 19438 Need Help? After the adoption of the new Lebel Model 1886 rifle, French military authorities attempted to develop a carbine version of the rifle for mounted troops. These elite reconnaissance and infiltration troops were equipped with a variety of small arms, including a combat knife, a handgun, grenades, and Berthier Mle 1892/M16 carbines. LSB#: 170314AE19 Make: Manufacture d'armes de Saint-Etienne (MA S), France Model: MLE M16 (Berthier Carbine) Serial Number: 18667 Year of Manufacture: 1920 Caliber: 8mm Lebel Action Type: Bolt Action, Clip Fed Five Round Magazine Markings: The import mark on the barrel reads "CAI ST. A. VT. 8 LEBEL FR".The left side of the receiver is marked "BC", with the serial number and "St . ), Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Pistols (flint), Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Pistols (perc), United States Patent Firearms Revolvers/Pistols, Century Arms International (CAI) - Shotguns. Despite this, the French wound up cobbling together the majority of their Berthier rifles during rebuilds due to an excess in parts. During World War I, it was quickly recognized that the Berthier's three-shot magazine was simply too small in comparison to foreign weapons, requiring too-frequent reloading. It is not import marked and all of the finish remaining on this rifle is factory original. Yet even today, she could make an excellent little brush gun or truck gun. The validity and interpretation of any of the terms and provisions of this agreement or of the rights and duties of the parties under this agreement shall be governed by the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and venue of all proceedings shall occur in Montgomery County, PA. However, this was merely an interim measure, as the French Army adopted the MAS-36 as its new standard bolt-action rifle. The search for a suitable small arm for mounted troops was given greater urgency by the Germans' development of the Karabiner Modell 1888, a carbine variant of the Gewehr 1888. Berthier carbines were first issued in 1890 and 1892, and had been designed by Emile Berthier, an engineer at the French Algerian Railways, to be used with standard 8mm Lebel ammunition. Pick-up Times available are: Berthiers were chambered in the same cartridge as the Lebel, the 8x50mm Lebel, which was the first to be loaded with smokeless powder (Poudre B). Items brought back to the auction center will be held, at no charge, for 1 business day following the pick-up day. Marketplace Insight. Subsequently, the French Empire required a threefold increase in production to meet the needs of the Grande Arme in its conquest of Europe. 215.393.3000 office The stock shows its age with all of the repairs. A replacement for the Lebel was clearly required, at least for mounted troops. Recommended third party shipping is available through: By Badger in forum Pattern 1913/1914 and M1917 Rifles, By Newsfeed Hound in forum The Watering Hole OT (Off Topic) Forum. until the 1960s for law enforcement purposes. ALL THE NUMBERS MATCH EXCEPT FOR THE BOLT BODY. Condition: Used, Minor Wear Caliber: (Other Ammo?) The rifle is an antique but, we only sell through FFL dealers. The screw can come loose under repeated firing, so keep an eye on it. Any winning bidder wanting to ship a firearm or firearms outside of the continental United States must make arrangements with an FFL Importer/Exporter. Providing buying, selling, pricing & demographic data 1916 ST.ETIENNE Mle M16 SHARP SHOOTER RIFLE. A Carbine version of the. After the success of the Berthier carbines or mousquetons, two full-length Berthier rifles were introduced during the years preceding World War I. Applicable buyer's premium is applied per auction. In combat service, most infantrymen found the Berthier rifles and carbines, with their one-piece stocks and fast-loading en bloc magazine, to be an improvement. Florida's horse country, specifically the Ocala area, presents a unique set of challenges for gardeners who are used to more traditional farmland. In response, the French Army held a series of rifle trials in 1887 to select a suitable carbine. The bidder is responsible for all shipping costs related to Alderfer requirements as stated above to the Importer/Exporter, and all costs in accordance with the Importer/Exporter in shipping the firearm(s) to said bidder. Specific State Restrictions August 15, 16, & 17 from 8:30 AM - 11:30 AM and from 1:00 PM - 4:00 PM 1. Description SERIAL NUMBER: 10355 DESIGN: Bolt action rifle. 50% blued finish with areas of pitting on barrel and receiver, fair bore, bayonet & scabbard, wood stock shows heavy denting and use. France employed large numbers of colonial troops with limited technological experience, and since colonial combat conditions in North Africa and Indochina were extremely hard on service weapons, carrying with an empty chamber was considered superior to reliance on a mechanical safety, since a rifle with no round in the chamber could never go off, unlike a rifle whose safety was not properly engaged or had malfunctioned due to grit or wear. The company offers Elephant Gigantes seeds, as well as free seeds that come with recommended shelf life information included. . Very good. The Berthier M-16 five-shot carbine immediately proved to be very popular with mounted cavalry, artillery, and reconnaissance troops. My stock in particular features no less than seven repairs and also lacks any sort of grasping grooves. (Photo: Francis Borek). At the time production of the Mle1886 was being wound down in favor of a new automatic rifle that it was hoped would reach service by 1913. To correct these issues, the Model 1916 Berthier rifle was introduced with a five-round en-bloc clip. We suggest that phone and absentee bids be made 24 hours in advance to allow time for processing. there is some vintage ammo on gunbroker for ok price. Any questions may be directed to Pam Bergey |215.393.3000 |pam@alderferauction.com Guns, Parts and Accessories Quick Shopper, WTS/WTB/WTT (Want to Sell, Buy or Trade) Forum, Appraisals, Fakery, Dispute Resolution & Mediation Forum, **** Guns, Parts and Accessories Quick Shopper ****, The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum, The Semi-Automatic Bren LMG (Light Machine Gun), The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum, M1 Garand/M14/M1A Picture of the Day Forum, Other Military Service Pistols and Revolvers, ~Angel~'s 'Match Making' Service (REPLY ONLY), Ammunition and Reloading for Old Milsurps. . hope you enjoy. The loaded clip should slide up out of the magazine. Sitting on top of that post is a tiny notch. 267.638.1063 direct great info. 215.256.4241 The small 3-shot magazine capacity was adopted after field testing, where the cavalry expressed a preference for a non-protruding magazine that did not interfere with the balance or handling of the rifle. 1886 Lebel. preferably something that could be purchased localy. Pennsylvania State Law prohibits any owner from bidding on their own merchandise to enhance the value. - Applicable sales tax will be added to the sales total unless a tax-exempt number is on file in our office by the day of the auction. Payments are due immediately upon purchase and before exiting the facility. If you have questions please call 215.393.3000. UsedGuns.com Estimated Price Range: Call or email to make shipping arrangements with the recommended shippers below or select your own: The Berthier rifles and carbines were a family of bolt-action small arms in 8mm Lebel, used in the French Army, and French Colonial Forces, from the 1890s to the beginning of World War II (1940).After the introduction of the Lebel rifle in 1886, the French Army wanted a repeating carbine using the same ammunition as the Lebel to replace their single shot carbine based on the Gras rifle. the Compagnies Republicaines de Securite (CRS) as late as the 1980s. During these events each item presented in the auction is also available for bidding in an online venue hosted by a third party provider such as www.liveauctioneers.com, www.invaluable.com, www.proxibid.com. By logging in you agree with our, This site requires accepting cookies in order to continue. Insurance is an additional fee of 1% of hammer price plus buyers premium. This is a handy carbine chambered in 8mm Lebel. Simulcast Auctions are conducted in front of a live audience. This improved 5-shot design was then fitted to existing rifle and carbine-length Berthier models (Mle1907/15, Mle1890M16, 1892M16 and Mle 1916 mousquetons). Packing fee of $25 for the first long gun 3. Seller Description The MLE 1890, or Berthier carbine, is a French carbine that was developed for mounted cavalry troops, having a shorter barrel and a bent bolt handle. Like Carcanos, Berthiers; other than using a Mannlicher-type magazine system, bear no other resemblance to true Mannlichers and should not be addressed as such. Very quickly the warring nations learned (more or less) the horrifying reality of modern warfare, and that they were going to be in for long and protracted conflict. In terms of striking power, it just barely reaches the level of the .32 ACP. Like the Mle1886 lebel, the Berthier lacked a mechanical safety; French training protocols called for soldiers to carry their rifle with loaded magazine but without a round in the chamber until ordered to load rifles by an NCO or officer in charge. Winchester Model 94 .22 WMR: Famous Silhouette Rifle. Listed here are state laws restricting the sale of certain high-capacity magazines. This French Berthier Carbine MLE 1892 was made by Manufacture d'armes de Saint-tienne (MAS) back in 1897. sounds like fun. After considerable delay, a modern 7.5mm mle 1929 rimless cartridge was finally introduced for the FM 24/29 light machine gun. The left side of the receiver is marked "St. Etienne MLE 1892" and with a small "P". 1. By continuing you agree with our. MAS later designed and manufactured the family of rifles chambered in 7.554mm French, from the MAS-36 through the MAS-49/56, then later the FAMAS bullpup assault rifle, which uses the 5.5645mm NATO round. Home Price Guide ST. ETIENNE MLE M16 Zoom Stock Image. Governing Law Alderfer Auction These rifles saw service in all branches of the French army mostly after 1918. Any used firearm should be inspected by a competent gunsmith for safety, function, and proper ammunition type/size before attempting to fire. Taurus Defender 856 TORO Brings Optic-Ready Performance to a Revolver. By continuing to use our site you agree to us using cookies in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Stay in the know. In 1864, the modern factory was built, new steam-powered machines were installed and the first military standardized bolt-action rifle, the Chassepot, was produced from 1866 on, then the Gras rifle after 1874. French leaders were also leery of arming the colonial soldiers with Lebels for a variety of reasons, mostly financial. I'm using PPU 200 gr. modle 1960, Fusil Automatique de 7,62 mm MAS A.P. I'd - Answered by a verified Firearms Expert. Arms Collectors of Southwest Washington (ACSWW) Gun Show, Beautiful engraved remington 7400 .243 with nikon monarch, Hornaday 44 CAL 205 GR COWBOY Component Bullets for Reloading, Dillon Precision 650/750 Caliber Conversion .38special/.357Magnum, Vintage White's Coinmaster TR Metal Detector, RCBS JR2 w/ Primer Arm and Body and Spent Primer Tray. Designated pick-up times are established for customers to remove their purchased items. Rifles issued to American 'African-American soldiers of the US 93rd Division', were of French manufacture and not US made (B. Canfield, US Weapons of WW1). After World War I, the French Foreign Legion, which carried the 3-shot Mle 1907-15 during most of its post-1916 combat operations, was re-equipped with the older Mle 1886/M93 Lebel rifle. Share: Price Guide; UsedGuns.com Estimated Price Range $0 - $625. Whether you are buying or selling firearms at Alderfer Auction you will be assured that your firearms have been processed according to the rigorous regulations established by the Federal Government. Prior experiments with several carbine versions of the Lebel action proved unacceptably heavy and slow to load while on horseback. The Mle 1890M16, 1892M16 and Mle 1916 mousquetons) were again used by French Foreign Legion and some colonial infantry and cavalry units, including the French Spahis. Close up of the Mannlicher clip and the extreme angle on which the cartridges rest upon each other. Berthier Model 1916 (original and converted) 5-shot rifles and carbines saw action in both France and Norway. Early single shot bolt action rifle, an improved version of the Chassepot Needle Rifles, used by the French Military. The contract was canceled after approximately half of the rifles were manufactured; and those rifles were sold on the private market. [9], Czechoslovakia received large numbers of Mle 07/15 rifles after World War I. A spring-loaded arm fed cartridges to the breech, and when all cartridges had been loaded, the empty clip fell out by gravity through an opening in the bottom of the magazine. For instance, the locking lugs present on the bolt of Berthier weapons lock into the receiver vertically, instead of horizontally as in the Lebel rifle. The venerable little French Berthier, chambered in the hard hitting 8mm Lebel, proved its worth in the trenches of WWI and subsequent wars. The ammunition this weapon uses is the 8x50Rmm or commonly called 8mm Lebel cartridge. Phone Number should have following format: Phone Number should be less than 20 symbols, Security code was sent via text message to. The occasional use, outside France, of the term "Mannlicher" to designate weapons of the Berthier system is due to the "en bloc" clip disposition which was borrowed from the real Mannlicher rifles and carbines. Alderfer Auction may refuse shipping an item due to the size, weight, and fragile nature of certain items. If the bolt is cocked and closed and the trigger is pulled, the firing pin will be released. In September 1938, the French Army also introduced the corps franc, special formations of infiltration & deep reconnaissance soldiers formed into lequipe or assault teams.
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